<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">I think it's clear why this would not produce proportional outcomes: with voting taking place on two separate ballots, there would be no way to balance out independents' seats. Some political parties could even exploit this flaw. Such a system would be worse than the current party lists system.<br />
There will be a referendum on whether we should adopt that electoral system.</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/topic/436/some-political-groups-within-slovenia-are-pushing-for-mmp-with-runoff-election</link><generator>RSS for Node</generator><lastBuildDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2026 11:02:58 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/topic/436.rss" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2023 18:01:40 GMT</pubDate><ttl>60</ttl><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election on Thu, 15 May 2025 21:39:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">The governing coalition opted for true open lists. Phragmén-MMP would be better because most of us like the idea of independent candidates.<br />
Though open lists are still better than MMP with runoff.</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3121</link><guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3121</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Matija]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2025 21:39:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election on Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:44:03 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">@michaelossipoff I don't necessarily trust parties to choose the representatives. There are a limited number of parties that gain traction, so within those parties there will still be a range of views. Parties often shift in different directions, and someone might be generally a supporter of a party but might not like a particular direction it's gone in, and therefore want to influence that.</p>
<p dir="auto">It's much more complex and nuanced than "I support this party so therefore fully trust that they will provide the best representatives".</p>
<p dir="auto">Open list is better, but any sort of list voting is biased against independents, and smaller movements more generally. As I understand it, Finland uses D'Hondt, which is still "vote for one" and if your party doesn't get enough votes to be elected, it's a wasted vote, and there could then be a vote-splitting effect if there are two similar parties that both fail to get a seat, but could have got one between them.</p>
<p dir="auto">Plus, the open part is also just FPTP within the parties, which isn't very good.</p>
<p dir="auto">STV is non-monotonic as you say, but there are other methods - approval-based methods such as <a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Phragmen%27s_voting_rules" rel="nofollow ugc">Phragmén's method</a>, which is monotonic.</p>
<p dir="auto">Plus the MMP method I discussed further up the thread, which is more independent-friendly and can be used with approval voting.</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3117</link><guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3117</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Toby Pereira]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2024 12:44:03 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election on Tue, 27 Feb 2024 22:09:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto"><a class="plugin-mentions-user plugin-mentions-a" href="http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/uid/52">@toby-pereira</a></p>
<p dir="auto">I agree that parallel MMP is too unproportional, &amp; additional-member (proportional topping-up) adds a prohibitive amount of complication for a first proposal.</p>
<p dir="auto">But Slovakia, I've read, already has party-list PR, at-large. I don't know why some want to change that.</p>
<p dir="auto">Open-List PR lets the voters choose who gets the seats that the party wins.</p>
<p dir="auto">Yes, there's very heavy anti-party sentiment here.<br />
Speaking for myself, I prefer Closed-List PR.  If we trust the party central-commuttee (whom we elect locally) to write the platform, then might we not trust them to build &amp; order the candiidate-list, After all the people in the central committee are the ones who are most involved in the creation &amp; running of the party, &amp; in the creation of the platform, Don't you think they're qualified, or don't you trust them, to choose &amp; order the list...from people they know a lot better than you &amp; I do?</p>
<p dir="auto">But, due the strong anti-party prejudice, I suggest Open-List for the proposal in this country.  ...on the Finnish system. Theirs is the exemplary simple, elegant Open--List system,</p>
<p dir="auto">STV? It's humgously complicated to explain, &amp; expensive to implement. Finnish Open-List doesn't need any new balloting-equipment or any modification of software,</p>
<p dir="auto">As soon as the vote-count is reported, the allocations to the parties  &amp; to their candidates can be done at any kitchen-table where there's a hand-calculator,</p>
<p dir="auto">Additionally, STV is nonmonotonic, List-PR isn't, unless you use Largest-Remainder (&amp; so you shouldn't),</p>
<h1>In STV, changing your ballot in a candidate's favor can make hir lose a seat,</h1>
<p dir="auto">In STV, adding another seat to the house can cause someone to lose their seat.</p>
<p dir="auto">Is that really what you want?</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3108</link><guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3108</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[[[global:former_user]]]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2024 22:09:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election on Tue, 27 Feb 2024 16:50:51 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">@michaelossipoff The problem with voting for parties (as in MMP methods) is that there is less individual accountability.</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I claim that limiting your choices to candidates in your local region infringes on &amp; violates your freedom &amp; rights as a voter.</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I am all in favour of allowing voters to vote for candidates from anywhere in principle, but do not favour party lists or overly complex ballots.</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3103</link><guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3103</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Toby Pereira]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2024 16:50:51 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election on Mon, 26 Feb 2024 06:18:51 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">What's wrong with their current PR system?  Districts serve no important purpose, &amp; bring problems of gerrymandering &amp; coarser proportionality.</p>
<p dir="auto">If anyone wants local representation, then they can get it in an at-large system. A quota of voters of some region has the power to elect someone local as a PM.  They could modify their local ballot with the addition of that local candidate.  That would work with Open-List, but it could also be arranged with Closed-List.</p>
<p dir="auto">I claim that limiting your choices to candidates in your local region infringes on &amp; violates your freedom &amp; rights as a voter.</p>
<p dir="auto">There's no reason to have districts.</p>
<p dir="auto">No more gerrymandering.<br />
Optimal proportionaity.</p>
<p dir="auto">At-large PR.</p>
<p dir="auto">MMP would lose proportional badly if it's the "Parallel" kind. But not if it's the "additional-member" (proportionality top-up) kind. ...at least usually not. Additional-Member systems aren't perfect in their preservation of proportionality.  ...&amp; it's a big complication to what would otherwise be a simple PR system.</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3091</link><guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3091</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[[[global:former_user]]]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2024 06:18:51 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Some political groups within Slovenia are pushing for MMP with runoff election on Sat, 02 Dec 2023 20:37:41 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p dir="auto">MMP can be quite clunky with its two different ways of electing representatives. There was a <a href="https://groups.google.com/g/electionscience/c/aP7ybKMb1zs/m/giaYAh6wAwAJ" rel="nofollow ugc">discussion</a> of MMP that allowed independent candidates to stand properly, and I even did a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjeBEBZjm9Y" rel="nofollow ugc">video</a> on it.</p>
]]></description><link>http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/2968</link><guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/2968</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[Toby Pereira]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2023 20:37:41 GMT</pubDate></item></channel></rss>